Jays-Red Sox reactions; The Manoah question; Pearson's injury; Thornton starts; Walker Speaks!; more
The Jays and Red Sox tangled at Fenway Park on Tuesday night, which means we have to talk about it.
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Three up, three down…
▲ Joe Siddall
Joe Siddall you ask? Yeah, Joe Siddall. First up arrow? You’re damn right. Siddall is great at what he does when he breaks down plays and swings and talks about all those nuts and bolts things that aren’t easily apparent to the audience. He also says what he thinks. Like tonight, when, with catchers Alejandro Kirk and Danny Jansen due up to start the inning with the team down 4-2, manager Charlie Montoyo chose to have Josh Palacios hit for Kirk (who had been serving as the DH).
JAMIE CAMPBELL: Did they pinch hit for the wrong catcher?
JOE SIDDALL: Jamie you’ve got a great point. Absolutely. The reason Alejandro Kirk is on this team is because he can hit. That’s what we understood, right? The only reason he’s here is because he can hit. Danny Jansen’s not hitting a lick. I think they pinch hit for the wrong catcher — exactly right. Now, you do run into a problem in the ninth. If Kirk has to go catch you lose that DH spot, but you’ve still got a couple guys left on the bench. Every at-bat counts when it’s this late in this ballgame and this close. Absolutely Danny Jansen should not be seeing the batter’s box there.
He’s not wrong.
And the thing is, I like Charlie Montoyo. I’d like for fans to like Charlie Montoyo. I also don’t want to piss and moan about the manager every single night. But some of his decisions make it hard sometimes.
(Other recent Siddall highlights: this breakdown of Vladimir Guerrero Jr.’s swing, and saying that he doesn’t think that when the Jays reach the level of a championship contender it will be with either Cavan Biggio at third base or Bo Bichette at short.)
▲ Third base
It is extremely comforting to see Santiago Espinal playing at third base for the Jays, because his arm means that we don’t have to hold our collective breath every time there’s a throw across the diamond.
It was also excellent to see Vladimir Guerrero Jr. get to spend a bit of time at the hot corner in this one. Vlad, now that we’re not agonizing over every ground ball, is so pure and so fun. I’m fine if he doesn’t play third a lot, but every moment of the game where he’s on camera is better than a moment where he’s not. More please!
▲ Home runs!
Bo Bichette and Randal Grichuk hit home runs in this one. Yay.
▼ Hyun Jin Ryu
It’s rare that Ryu is ever going to get a down arrow, and for the first three innings of this one it didn’t look like there was a chance he would. Ryu was brilliant and efficient at the start of the game, toying with Red Sox hitters the first time through the order. Then it fell apart. His defenders certainly didn’t do him any favours at times. But they weren’t the problem in the crucial fourth inning, so it wasn’t just that.
Ryu very clearly isn’t a “velocity guy,” but that doesn’t make the radar gun meaningless when he’s on the mound. In his Blue Jays career so far, he’s been noticeably worse whenever he doesn’t have his best fastball — and tonight was one of those nights.
There have only been four games in Ryu’s Blue Jays career so far where the average on his four-seamer didn’t break 89 mph. Tonight was one of those. So was his disastrous start in the playoffs against the Rays last September. In those four games he’s allowed 17 earned runs in just 16 innings.
In his other 13 starts for the Jays? He’s allowed just 14 runs total.
Velocity matters. Even for him.
▼ The defence
Lourdes Gurriel Jr. needs a sponsor on the back of his jersey because apparently we get to see his numbers every night now as he chases catchable balls all the way to the wall. It’s not great!
Neither, sadly, is watching Bo Bichette play shortstop at this point.
Errors, as we all know, are a poor way to judge and compare defenders’ performances, because so much important context is missing from the stat. But the thing is, we’ve all been watching the games. We’ve seen some context. And Bichette is making too many errors. And bobbles. And rushed max-effort throws necessary to compensate for not having the greatest arm.
All that is also a reason it was nice to watch Espinal be able to make a catch, slow the game down for a moment, then have the physical ability to set and throw a strike to first base.
▼ A three run deficit seeming insurmountable
It goes without saying that the Jays need more than just one or two guys to be capable of getting a hit, but woof. Wooooo-oooof. Wuhhhhhhh-oof.
Having Jansen and Semien batting back to back (once the lineup turns over) is especially cruel right now.
Scuttlebutt
• The Jays have finally announced a starter for Wednesday’s mini-series finale in Boston: Trent Thornton.
It’s always secrets and lies!
• Ahh yes, a fresh injury to a Blue Jays pitcher. Must be a day that ends in “y.” This one belongs to T.J. Zeuch, who didn’t have a great time in the Jays’ loss to the Royals on Sunday, but certainly didn’t look broken. He was though, apparently, as he hit the injured list prior to Tuesday’s game with right shoulder tendinitis. Santiago Espinal was called up to take his place.
• Certain internet jokesters had other ideas about what the Jays should do here:
I know, I know, posting my own tweets here is weird. But I’m going somewhere with this. Because according to the latest mail bag from Gregor Chisholm of the Toronto Star, fans need to stop doing this.
I get that. And I will fully admit that when I’m drum-banging for Manoah I’m at least halfway joking. But I also sort of think it’s going to seem like an absurd, unserious idea until the moment that it doesn’t. Guys who were at the alt-site have seen their timelines accelerated. I’m not sure how entirely unserious the idea really is.
Anyway, not to go all Griff Bag on this, but here’s Gregor:
“All this hype surrounding Manoah is over what? Seven shutout innings in spring training? Because it certainly can’t be over the grand total of 17 innings he has tossed in the minors, none of which occurred above low-A Vancouver. Does everyone really need a reminder of all the guys looked great in the spring and then never amounted to much of anything? If so, I’m going to need a bigger word count because there are a lot of names to go through.”
I mean, I think it was less the numbers on the page and more the way he pitched, and the stuff that was on display!
The point isn’t to suggest Manoah is going to be a bust. I haven’t seen enough of him to know and frankly the Blue Jays haven’t either. But this is a guy who barely pitched in any games over the last two years. He needs to get his innings up and develop a third pitch to make it as a starter. If he entered the rotation now, he likely would be shut down by the summer. If he was put in the bullpen, instead of getting stretched out, it would make it that much more difficult to come back later as a starter.
The third pitch thing is a good point. Manoah threw just four changeups in his three outings this spring (though he did pair his slider with both a four-seam fastball and a sinker).
But!
I don’t know how the Jays view the innings Manoah pitched at West Virginia in early 2019, but add those to the 17 he pitched for Vancouver that year and he's been up to 125 1/3 in a season before. He wouldn’t have reached that kind of workload last year, obviously, but being at the alt-site he was doing something. That’s not the worst base in the world for him.
And then there’s this quote from Ross Atkins, when asked about him during a radio hit last month.
“His stuff would play, obviously, he just punched out seven in three innings against a pretty good team. It's more how do we put him in a position to go out there for six to eight innings, for 20 to 30 starts, year in and year out, and make sure that we're not having to take a sideways step or, worse case scenario, a backwards step. But he can, based on his effectiveness, and based on how his minor league development goes, a lot of that progress and workload development can be in the major leagues — as we've started that process with Nate Pearson — so yes, he can speed up that timeline. He can absolutely do that.”
I’m not saying this makes any of what Gregor is saying wrong. I’m just saying call him up!!!
• Some more vital scuttlebutt:
This needs to happen. Needs to happen.
• Jays fans may be sick of the Red Sox already, but if you’re not, a great way to stay up-to-date on this particular division rival is Matthew Kory’s Sox Outsider, which you can also find here on Substack.
And if you prefer hearing things to reading them, Matt’s got a podcast too, and old friend Jonah Birenbaum joined him this week to talk Jays-Sox. Check that out too.
(Hey, and, uh, speaking of podcasts, you’ll be hearing some news on that front from me in the very near future!)
Walker Speaks!
Lastly, Jays pitching coach Pete Walker met with the media in a lengthy Zoom session back on Sunday, giving updates on just about all of his pitchers. Here are some highlights.
• On Trent Thornton
I originally had this one farther down the list, but with the announcement that Trent Thornton will start for the Jays on Wednesday, I think it’s pertinent to look at what Walker was saying about him back on Sunday. I’ll say this much, it’s definitely not “I expect this guy to start next week.”
I think he's at a point — he's obviously started major league games, he's been built up in the past, we semi built him up this spring and got him to a few innings, but right now he's kind of a bulk reliever. He could still pitch short like he's done a couple of times. We're not far off from getting him three innings, and as long as we can keep him in that two to three inning range, I think we're in a good place with him. There may be, certainly, some opportunities to start at some point, but right now we're focussing on him out of the bullpen and being a big part of that 'pen for now. Obviously we've lost some key guys, you know, with Merryweather down, Romano out, obviously Kirby Yates out for the year. There's some holes down there right now. So, you know, Trent's filling in nicely. And in the meantime he may be used in some shorter stints, and we can always readjust as we have to.
This makes it sound like Thornton may be getting the call as an “opener” on Wednesday, though it’s also possible that the injury to T.J. Zeuch has changed the way the Jays need to use him.
Walker offered some additional thoughts on what he thinks Thornton’s best role is.
It's hard to say (if he's better in 2-3 inning bursts or starting). I still think he can be a very solid major league starter. But he looks good out of the 'pen. His makeup actually fits the 'pen. When you look at him he kind of comes at you with arms and legs, a lot of moving parts to his delivery. In a short stint he's got some weapons to get you out. You can't really sit on one particular pitch. He throws strikes. He has the aggressive mindset of a reliever. But I still think he has the stuff to start, so we're not going to move away from that at this point.
Hmm.
• On Nate Pearson
The pitcher Walker was asked about most by far during the session was Nate Pearson, for obvious reasons. The Jays’ top prospect has yet to throw a pitch this season after suffering a groin injury in early March, but it sounds like his two month ordeal may soon be coming to an end.
But before we get to Walker, let’s rewind a bit and hear what Pearson himself has said about all of this. He spoke to Hazel Mae of Sportsnet last week, and gave some fresh first-hand insight on the initial injury and more.
“It was in my first spring outing, throwing that one inning. I kind of felt something during the game,” he explained. “Obviously me being a competitor I didn't want to come out of the game, but I got through that inning. It kind of just tightened up after. It was something I made apparent to the training staff. They checked me out and we ended up going down to get imaging and all that. That whole route. Obviously rehabbing that. And in my second bullpen back I reaggravated it. Which, again, wasn't the end of the world, it didn't make the strain a lot worse, it just kind of stalled things. Right now I've got a live BP tomorrow, we'll go from there. But I'm feeling pretty good right now.”
Honestly, I’m surprised this interview didn’t make more waves. Though it appears to have been edited out for time, this was the one in which Pearson said, according to a tweet from Hazel, that he’d been “trying not to be too violent” on the mound. Then we have that comment about continuing to pitch after feeling that something was wrong, which instantly reminded me of the way his elbow injury was handled last season.
"Oh, yeah — First time he ever mentioned that."
That was Charlie Montoyo back on August 19, according to Sportsnet's Arden Zwelling, referring to Pearson finally admitting that he wasn't feeling right.
"Regardless of when the tightness arose,” Zwelling wrote at the time, “Pearson clearly hasn’t felt his best since going five scoreless against the Washington Nationals in his stellar MLB debut three weeks ago. In three subsequent starts, he’s walked 10 batters over 11.1 innings and allowed five home runs. He’s thrown only 59 per cent of his pitches for strikes and his fastball command in particular has been uncharacteristically spotty."
The proof isn’t there for anyone to come out and say it, but it’s not exactly difficult to infer that Pearson may not have been entirely truthful about how he was feeling. And while pitching through multiple starts before revealing an injury is vastly different than simply finishing out an inning, it still speaks to the kind of double-edged sword the “competitor” mindset can be.
Interestingly, the Jays have done a lot of thinking about Pearson’s willingness to report injuries — and, at least as of this February 2020 piece, also from Arden, have generally felt pretty good about all that. Hopefully these last two injuries (technically three with the reaggravation) are the last of them that anyone has to worry about!
Anyway! For the moment, other than Pearson not yet being in the big leagues, things are apparently pretty good. Here’s Walker:
“He looks great. I saw him throw a side in Dunedin. His velocity is there, the breaking stuff is there. He's throwing strikes. He feels really good. So it's just a matter of building him up. And we're excited that he feels good and just want to get him back here. But, again, we're going to do it right and make sure when he does get back he's feeling great.”
It definitely feels like he’s close.
How close? The Jays aren’t saying.
“We have it mapped out, obviously, but we're not ready to share that. But he's doing great. He throws an up and down Tuesday, and we'll see how he feels Wednesday.”
At the time of this writing there have yet to be any reports about how that session went, but in that specific instance no news is probably good news. In general, however, the way that Pearson’s status is being kept under wraps is a little puzzling. My hope is that it’s simply a case of the Jays having learned from the Aaron Sanchez situation in 2016, understanding that it’s probably in their best interest to shave innings off of the start of Pearson’s season rather than spending all summer debating a shut-down date — even if it means being ultra-cautious at a time when the pitching staff could really use him.
Back to Walker:
“With him it's really just about, obviously, getting his body feeling right, commanding the fastball, different spots in the strike zone. And, obviously, establishing that breaking stuff where it's carrying the zone effectively. That's the biggest thing with him right now. Once he's able to do that and attack the zone, get strike one, he should be off to the races.”
It’s kind of thrilling to think that, as much as Pearson has been a huge part of the conversation around the Jays for a couple years now, we’re really only barely seen him. A nice long run of health that takes him through the rest of this season and into October is a game-changer. Especially since the Jays are being clear — or, at least, as clear as the Jays ever allow themselves to be — that they’re not going to mess around with his role. Uh, probably.
Ideally he'd come up as a starter and go deep into the ballgame. But we'll make that decision based on his best interest and where he's at. And obviously out needs come into play as well. But I think, ideally, right now is to build him up normally, get him up to a starter's pitch count, and when we feel comfortable with that count to perform at the major league level we'll bring him back.
It’s a shame to see Walker turning into another Ross Atkins when it comes to leaving every conceivable door open a crack. I can’t imagine Pearson comes back as anything but a starter.
• On Jordan Romano
When asked to define “ulnar neuritis,” Walker demurred. But he did provide some outstanding news about one of the Jays’ most important relievers.
“Well, medically speaking I won't go there, but he feels good. Bottom line is he feels good. He's throwing a side today (Sunday), and we hope to have him available as soon as he can come off the IL. So, he feels great, played catch yesterday, cutting it loose. Just a — maybe a little freak thing that irritated him a little bit, but nothing alarming. We just decided to be very safe and cautious with him and give him more than a couple of day. But he should be ready to go when his time's up. Feels great. But nothing severe for sure. He should be back within his 10-day period and helping us out right away.”
Romano, if I’ve counted right, will be eligible to come off of the IL on Sunday.
• On Tyler Chatwood
More good news! And, perhaps, also more of an indication that the Jays are being extremely cautious about anything even resembling an injury right now.
“Chatwood we hope is short term. He should be back too, right away. He feels great. Throwing a live BP on Tuesday. His bullpen went well today. He feels really good. Talking with him on the homestand, he feels like he could have pitched then. So that's all good news. He should be back on time as well.”
• On Julian Merryweather
It wasn’t all good news on the injury front, unfortunately. (And this, of course, was before Tuesday’s news about Zeuch.)
“Still waiting to get some more information there, to be honest with you. So I don't have anything to share today. He wasn't feeling that great in that last outing. Obviously there's a little concern there for us, and we want him part of this bullpen, because he could certainly be a big part of the bullpen. Once we get some more information we'll share it, but right now I don't have anything to offer there.”
Obliques can be tricky. And though it would be great to get Merryweather back quickly, it would be even better to get him back fully healthy — especially if this could finally, somehow, be the time he actually stays that way for a while.
• On Ross Stripling
It doesn’t sound like Ross Stripling will be back for a while either.
“Strip we're kind of watching. He's playing catch at 90 feet today (Sunday), getting his work in. I'll get out there and watch him play catch and we'll talk to him after. If we've got to slow play it we'll slow play it, but right now we're just hoping he feels good and can come off when we need him.”
• On Thomas Hatch
For the sake of completeness, here’s what Walker said — i.e. not much — about one more of the club’s injured pitchers.
“I probably need another update on Tom. I know he's a little bit behind everybody else. But we still anticipate him being a big part of this team during the season. Right now he's playing catch and working his way back, but I don't have any particular schedule for him right now.”
• On the Jays’ rash of injuries
“Obviously it's a concern across baseball, but when it happens in your camp you're always looking to try to figure out reasons why and ways to change that. But, you know, no. I think right now, the things that have happened, we deal with it. Obviously you learn from things that have happened. But looking back at the innings guys threw, the appearances, the amount of work they were getting, they're all things we would normally do, for sure. So, I can't put my finger on it, but it happens. We've got to deal with it and do the best to rectify it going forward.”
I’ve already seen fans itching to point fingers at the high performance department, or wherever, trying to find something or someone to pin the Jays’ injury troubles on. I don’t want to suggest that we shouldn’t ask hard questions of the team when bad thing happen, but that stuff strikes me as quite silly. These are humans throwing baseballs upwards of 100 mph, putting all kinds of unnatural strains on all sorts of body parts. Injuries happen. Lots of them sometimes.
• On taking advantage of the schedule
Asked by Sportsnet’s Ben Nicholson-Smith about the club’s upcoming off-days and the potential of using Hyun Jin Ryu, Steven Matz, and Robbie Ray to make eight of the next 10 starts (beginning here on Tuesday in Boston), Walker admitted that the Jays might do exactly that. Then he basically said that they almost certainly would. LOL.
“Certainly considering that. I won't lay it all out for you here, but we have the opportunity with the off days to make sure those guys are getting regular work, and still getting some rest, to be honest with you, which is nice. So we're going to take full advantage of that and hopefully other guys settle into those (other) spots in the rotation, but right now when we can use those guys we will.”
• On getting Ryu extra rest when possible
“I think any time we have an opportunity to do that we're going to try to, for sure. It's not always going to work out that way. I know his next outing after this one, in Boston, will be on regular rest. It's just how it works out sometimes. I think with him, you look at his numbers, they're always good on a little bit more rest. And it's early in the season, it's April, and I think when you're thinking about a long season and making 30-plus starts for us, to be smart, and when we have the opportunity to do it, we have a well-rested bullpen. It was an easy choice.”
Interestingly, of the four disastrous Ryu starts I referred to above, two came when he was on regular rest, and two came with him on an extra day. So getting that extra day isn’t necessarily all it takes to ward off the worst possible outcomes, but keeping him as fresh as possible is clearly — clearly — the right move.
• On Robbie Ray
Walker spoke before Sunday’s start about Robbie Ray, who until that point had looked pretty good!
“He came here, obviously, making some changes in Arizona and was in the process of doing it. Came to us, and we just kind of finalized it. But his arm swing is great, he feels really comfortable throwing the baseball. I could tell at the end of last year that he was on the right path and throwing strikes. Even though there were some walks at the end, they weren't wild walks. And coming into this season I was real excited for him. We've made some adjustments in approach and how we're attacking hitters, but for the most part it's all him, and his arm swing is back to normal. He feels great. His breaking stuff has been exceptional. So we're just really excited that he's found his groove again, and we hope that continues today and throughout the season.
Without getting into details, it's how we're attacking right-handed and left-handed hitters, where we're attacking them. With his stuff, utilizing more of the plate. All those things. But he definitely has refined his approach and he's enjoyed early success with it.
Were the six walks he issued in this one “wild walks”? I don’t know, but they sure weren’t great! Yes, Ray managed to get himself out of the messes he got himself into, but it’s hard to square the performance we saw with the pre-game praise he received.
• On Tanner Roark
It’s easy to be down on Tanner Roark’s Blue Jays career so far. Very, very easy. But the club, and Walker in particular, seems to like him quite a bit more than fans do at this point. And you’ve got to hand it to him for battling through when the results have been so, so putrid.
“He's been great, to be honest with you. It's not easy. A guy that's started so many games at the major league level, had a little bit of a difficult time last year, come into spring revamped and made some good adjustments. But he understands, he's a pro. He's been great. He loves the guys here. He gave us quality innings two days ago, which helped a lot, and he's ready to go today (Sunday). I asked him how he's feeling today, can he pitch out of the 'pen today, and he said absolutely. So, very positive and doing what he can to get back in the rotation. That's ultimately where he wants to be is to be starting games. So for now he'll pitch out of the 'pen and continue to work on his stuff, and when there's an opportunity and he's throwing the ball well hopefully he can get back in there.”
Nice words. But the Jays do seem to be stringing Roark along here a bit, and may have moved on already if they weren’t so thin as it is.
“We're taking it day by day. We're trying to make sure that if he does pitch it's most likely not going to be short. But, again, it depends on what we need — our needs in the bullpen for that particular day. But right now he's in the bullpen, he's a reliever. He's still relatively built up, so obviously he can throw 50 or 60 pitches if we needed him to, and that's great. But he's been very open to the move at this point, but I know in his heart he wants to be starting. Again, we'll give him the ball and try to communicate with him as best as possible and make sure he's continuing to work on his game.”
• On Anthony Kay
Lastly, despite a less than stellar line, Walker was impressed by Anthony Kay over the weekend in Kansas City when the young lefty made his season debut.
I think going to the alternate site is not easy right now, because you feel like you're far removed from the major leagues. It's not Triple-A with fans in the stands either. It's a big, big difference from pitching in the major leagues. So, with that being said, he was a little bit rusty in some areas, but I do think he competed and I thought he threw the ball a lot better than his numbers showed. Some soft hits, some tough calls. I think he just needs to pitch, and I think that if he gets some more outings up here he'll get in a groove. But the stuff looks good. It's a mid-90s fastball. He utilized his changeup a little bit — made a couple mistakes with his changeup in the middle part of the zone. But I thought overall his stuff looked good. He's just got to refine his cutter a little bit.
As noted above, Kay is one of a few options the Jays have to follow Trent Thornton on Wednesday. Given these comments, it wouldn’t surprise me to see him get the call.
So you think we’ll pursue a FA shortstop next off season?