It would be easier to put up with the divergent results if the attitude was better. I think that's a big part of it. Not entirely his fault, seems cultural more than anything, but it's a thing.
Seems like a few are taking my comments, making assumptions, and running with it. No worries, that's the internet.
He grew up in a different country. They play sports a different way. I grew up playing Rugby, a sport for hooligans played by gentleman. When you score, you sprint back to the ready position and wait for play to begin again, anything else is showing up your opponent. That's just the way I learned sports.
Vlad was brought up in the DR sports culture that encourages raw showing of emotion. What he is doing is totally normal given his upbringing, but it can rub some people the wrong way. It's an unconscious bias I have (my problem) that others may have as well.
The FO is in a difficult position with this. He came up with expectations of being a generational star and someone who would be a key to our championship window. It worked for 2021, 2022 was ok and since then....meh. So who is he? I think the negativity from the fans is because he was meant to be that generational star and hasn't been looking close to it for the last few years. If he has a similar year to last year and is a 1-2 WAR player, would you get a 'discount' on a long term contract? Would you even want to sign him to one? Do you re-sign him because you're afraid of him going to another team and becoming that generational star? It's just a bummer. His 2021 season was so much fun.
You can’t sign him if he has another year as merely very good because he’ll just bet on himself—and he’d be right to because there is still tons of time for him to be that guy we all hoped for, and the fact that he has been in the past and is only 25 suggests very very loudly that the last one year plus a couple weeks is not all he is. The game reveals itself much more slowly than fans appreciate. It’s why a team would take so long before giving up on someone like Mitch White—who is a guy clinging to the 26th spot on the roster. With someone with literal game-changing generational talent you can only have patience, only root for him, only hope it gets better. Anything else is wasted energy—an annoying defence mechanism—unless someone’s point is to make other fans as miserable as they are, which sadly seems far too often to be the case.
Everything you are writing here is rational and fine. Yes! You’re calm! The reason Vlad’s disappointment is met with such a harsh tone by the fan base - the Jays as constructed will only realize their potential/peak based on the output of Vlad. There’s not the power, the kind of bat that can carry a team’s offence for a multi-week period. And so, if we are going to patiently wait for Vlad’s to realize potential/consistent production (wait for your pitch! Simplify your swing load! Stay calm! Put glue in your glove!), we’re likely going to see this once-promising window shrivel into pitch-rich, offends-starved period with lots of Orioles playoff appearances.
He had a 118 wRC+ and only hit 26 HRs last season and they won just one fewer game than the team that won the World Series and five more than the NL pennant winner. They were a better offensive club than the Orioles by wRC+. So this simply isn’t true.
Fielder was never that level of prospect and had an excellent career basically right out of the gate until it was derailed by injuries. Weight Weirdos have been trying to put that comp on Vlad forever but I don’t think it’s a serious one. The Harper comp is about how long it took to find his footing consistently.
That's fair. The worry, however, is that Vladdy doesn't even have that trajectory. Chris Black's comments notwithstanding, 2021 is increasingly looking like an outlier.
Now, you've made an excellent point with regard to Bichette, but is there anything you've seen in Vladdy this year that makes you feel confident about a bounceback in form to 2021 levels?
2021 is the reason, along with his entire career in the majors and minors, and how hard he hits the ball and how good he is at taking walks and avoiding strikeouts. My whole point is that it’s silly to draw conclusions like “2021 was an outlier” too quickly.
Define "too quickly". We're now in 2024. We've got a reasonable time sample, I think. I would think that if this season goes much like the previous 2, it will be harder to make the case that he's an elite talent (as opposed to a very good player). But I hope I'm wrong. I'm not a Vladdy hater, but am increasingly skeptical that he's going to be a long-term foundational piece in Toronto.
What’s not true? My point is…the vitriol and anger centred around Vlad is the fact that the Jays as constructed can’t hit their ceiling unless he does. Last year’s Vlad stats and team performance are reflective of that.
What’s not true is that the Jays can’t hit their ceiling unless he does. They got to the playoffs last year and were a very good team that absolutely could have won the World Series (any team that gets in can—see: the Diamondbacks; it’s a crapshoot) and he was far from his best.
I find it hard to construct a scenario where the Blue Jays realize their top outcome potential without Vlad realizing his. Yes, this is a game of luck in the playoffs (Hello D’backs!), but we’re talking about realizing peak potential as a team.
It would be easier to put up with the divergent results if the attitude was better. I think that's a big part of it. Not entirely his fault, seems cultural more than anything, but it's a thing.
What, from what can you discern from watching baseball on television, is wrong with his "attitude"?
Seems like a few are taking my comments, making assumptions, and running with it. No worries, that's the internet.
He grew up in a different country. They play sports a different way. I grew up playing Rugby, a sport for hooligans played by gentleman. When you score, you sprint back to the ready position and wait for play to begin again, anything else is showing up your opponent. That's just the way I learned sports.
Vlad was brought up in the DR sports culture that encourages raw showing of emotion. What he is doing is totally normal given his upbringing, but it can rub some people the wrong way. It's an unconscious bias I have (my problem) that others may have as well.
I think you're the one making assumptions about how people are responding to your comments.
Gross.
If you were the Front Office, would you ink him to a lucrative long-term contract at first opportunity?
The first opportunity was before he reached the Majors and a moot(er) point because his dad is rich as God.
You’re never going to agree with him on a number, so that’s a moot point. If he has a big season absolutely in the winter.
The FO is in a difficult position with this. He came up with expectations of being a generational star and someone who would be a key to our championship window. It worked for 2021, 2022 was ok and since then....meh. So who is he? I think the negativity from the fans is because he was meant to be that generational star and hasn't been looking close to it for the last few years. If he has a similar year to last year and is a 1-2 WAR player, would you get a 'discount' on a long term contract? Would you even want to sign him to one? Do you re-sign him because you're afraid of him going to another team and becoming that generational star? It's just a bummer. His 2021 season was so much fun.
You can’t sign him if he has another year as merely very good because he’ll just bet on himself—and he’d be right to because there is still tons of time for him to be that guy we all hoped for, and the fact that he has been in the past and is only 25 suggests very very loudly that the last one year plus a couple weeks is not all he is. The game reveals itself much more slowly than fans appreciate. It’s why a team would take so long before giving up on someone like Mitch White—who is a guy clinging to the 26th spot on the roster. With someone with literal game-changing generational talent you can only have patience, only root for him, only hope it gets better. Anything else is wasted energy—an annoying defence mechanism—unless someone’s point is to make other fans as miserable as they are, which sadly seems far too often to be the case.
I actually think he would do well with a change of scenery. I have no basis for that, just a feeling.
Everything you are writing here is rational and fine. Yes! You’re calm! The reason Vlad’s disappointment is met with such a harsh tone by the fan base - the Jays as constructed will only realize their potential/peak based on the output of Vlad. There’s not the power, the kind of bat that can carry a team’s offence for a multi-week period. And so, if we are going to patiently wait for Vlad’s to realize potential/consistent production (wait for your pitch! Simplify your swing load! Stay calm! Put glue in your glove!), we’re likely going to see this once-promising window shrivel into pitch-rich, offends-starved period with lots of Orioles playoff appearances.
He had a 118 wRC+ and only hit 26 HRs last season and they won just one fewer game than the team that won the World Series and five more than the NL pennant winner. They were a better offensive club than the Orioles by wRC+. So this simply isn’t true.
He could end up being Prince Fielder, rather than Bryce Harpet
Fielder was never that level of prospect and had an excellent career basically right out of the gate until it was derailed by injuries. Weight Weirdos have been trying to put that comp on Vlad forever but I don’t think it’s a serious one. The Harper comp is about how long it took to find his footing consistently.
That's fair. The worry, however, is that Vladdy doesn't even have that trajectory. Chris Black's comments notwithstanding, 2021 is increasingly looking like an outlier.
Now, you've made an excellent point with regard to Bichette, but is there anything you've seen in Vladdy this year that makes you feel confident about a bounceback in form to 2021 levels?
Don’t mistake your getting impatient for something conclusive having happened.
2021 is the reason, along with his entire career in the majors and minors, and how hard he hits the ball and how good he is at taking walks and avoiding strikeouts. My whole point is that it’s silly to draw conclusions like “2021 was an outlier” too quickly.
Define "too quickly". We're now in 2024. We've got a reasonable time sample, I think. I would think that if this season goes much like the previous 2, it will be harder to make the case that he's an elite talent (as opposed to a very good player). But I hope I'm wrong. I'm not a Vladdy hater, but am increasingly skeptical that he's going to be a long-term foundational piece in Toronto.
What’s not true? My point is…the vitriol and anger centred around Vlad is the fact that the Jays as constructed can’t hit their ceiling unless he does. Last year’s Vlad stats and team performance are reflective of that.
What’s not true is that the Jays can’t hit their ceiling unless he does. They got to the playoffs last year and were a very good team that absolutely could have won the World Series (any team that gets in can—see: the Diamondbacks; it’s a crapshoot) and he was far from his best.
I find it hard to construct a scenario where the Blue Jays realize their top outcome potential without Vlad realizing his. Yes, this is a game of luck in the playoffs (Hello D’backs!), but we’re talking about realizing peak potential as a team.
It’s pretty easy, they won 89 games in a year that he had a 118 wRC+ and could have been a lot better if not for three months of awful RISP luck